Dan Madsen is a publicist/marketing/public relations at Independent consultant working with fan based media. He is the former Founder/President/Publisher at Fantastic Media and created/produced the global official fan clubs, magazines, and merchandise for the Official Star Trek and Star Wars entertainment franchises under license from Paramount Pictures and Lucasfilm Ltd. He’s a humble, friendly guy and even had a cameo in The Phantom Menace. Dan took a moment to answer a few of my questions about fandom. (Original Posting: July 18, 2006)
Tell me about your first job in fandom/entertainment?
My first job in entertainment was as an actor. As a little person, I filmed many national commercials for Dodge, JC Penny, and others. As for fan clubs, I started the Official Star Trek fan club out of my parents house when I was 18. I had always been a fan of something all my life. As a kid, I collected comic books. Then I became interested in Star Trek and Star Wars, Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind and other science fiction properties. I never intended to make a career out of it. When I started the Trek club it was just a hobby. Over the years it grew and grew and became more than I ever imagined it would be. When I was asked to do the Lucasfilm club, that’s when I realized it was a real business. That was back in 1986. Although I was already making a living off of Trek before that.
Do you remember Steve Sansweet before he was hired at Lucasfilm?
I remember Steve when he was just known as the biggest Star Wars collector there was! I don’t recall where I first met him. I think we spoke over the phone after he did an interview with one of my writers for the magazine. I really got to know him better when he went to work for Lucasfilm. I have always had a good relationship with Steve. We have been friends for a very long time. I still talk to him from time to time. I recently helped him obtain some Colorado Lottery Star Wars tickets for his collection since I live here. Steve is a great guy and I am sure our paths will cross again somewhere down the road.
Can you explain to me the genesis of Celebration I in Denver?
About a year and a half before the event, Lucasfilm came to me and asked if we would be interested in doing an event tied to the first prequel. I said “yes we were” although there was some apprehension on my part as we had never produced an event before. We were in the publishing, merchandise, and fan club business. They weren’t sure if George would approve it, but they said they would get back to me and let me know. Apparently it took months to run it by George. About a year before the event, they called me and said it had been given the “green light.” So I had to assemble my crew and put together this massive event in less than a year while we were running our normal business at the same time. I was up for it, though, as it seemed like a challenge and I wanted the chance to give the fans something I would want to see. Unfortunately, with only a year’s notice, all of the major venues here in Denver were already booked.
I hired a couple of local groups to help me. They had experience in running events, conventions, etc. One put on the huge event when Pope John Paul II came to Denver with President Clinton for the World Youth Day. We wanted to put the event on here in Denver as we felt we could manage it better if it was in our own backyard. Denver is my home and it is also rather centrally located in the United States so people can get to it from anywhere. After searching and searching and having no luck, we finally came upon the Wings Over the Rockies Air and Space Museum which had a lot of room and kind of a cool tie-in with the fighter jets and such. Lucasfilm liked that idea. We realized, though, that it would not hold everything. So we found a company who built temporary structures who could build several outside so that we could hold events in them. It was an enormous undertaking that involved hundreds of people and was done in a short amount of time. If fans knew how much work it took and how much time we had to do it in, I think they would be impressed. None of us had put on an event of this nature before and we had more people show up than we expected—30,000! This was not a small event. It was a major event for our first time out.
What was Lucasfilm’s involvement in Celebration I?
Surprisingly, Lucasfilm was not as involved as we would have liked them to be. We wanted them to be more involved but they pretty much put it in our hands. Of course, they approved everything including the dealers who could sell there. Steve Sansweet came in and worked with me on the main stage events in the last week and he was a big help. Anthony Daniels, who is a good friend, was in town two weeks before the event to work with me on his stage show. He is such a class act. You won’t find a better person (or friend) than Anthony. Jim Ward, then head of Marketing at Lucasfilm, came out once to approve the facility. But they were happy with the progress. They, of course, supplied all the artifacts for the Lucasfilm exhibit and sent out a person to oversee that part. We provided the security and the display cases to house them in.
The entire event, from beginning to end, was really a Fantastic Media production with some assistance from Lucasfilm. No one could have expected the enormous amounts of rain we had that weekend. The heavens opened up on us and it was reported in the news that the rain we got in Denver that weekend was the worst we had seen in the past 100 years. It was absolutely the worst weekend to hold the event we could’ve chosen, but no one knew months before what the weather would be like. Since we couldn’t get a facility that was entirely indoors, we had to do what we could and the temporary structures were our only choice. So, unfortunately, many of the events we had planned outdoors were ruined or canceled, and the mud and rain created havoc for us.
I remember Rick McCallum telling me, though, that he was glad it rained like it did because it made the event special. He said, “Years later, fans will remember this event because they had to slosh through the rain and mud for Star Wars and it built a camaraderie between them.” He later told me, “I wouldn’t have changed it one bit, even if I could’ve.” He was right. To this day, I still get letters from fans thanking me for the event and saying it stands out above all the Celebrations because it was the only one truly fan-run. It was their “Star Wars Woodstock.” That’s what it has been called and it is remembered fondly.
I remember the second day of the event, Gordon Radley, then-president of Lucasfilm, flew out. He had been skeptical all along about the event. He went to Jim Ward and told him how pleased he was with the event and that he was wrong. It was a good thing, and he was glad they asked us to do it. I still have the nice thank you notes from him and Jim and others which were sent after the event.
One other story I will share with you. About two weeks before the event, the Columbine High School shootings occurred here in Denver. It was a sad time. It made national news and Lucasfilm felt that the event should be canceled in light of the tragedy that had just happened. They felt Denver was not ready for a “happy” event that soon. Of course, thousands and thousands of fans had already made reservations and plans to travel to Denver for the event. There would’ve been a lot of unhappy fans if we had canceled the event. So, Anthony Daniels and I got on the phone with Jim Ward and the others at Lucasfilm to argue that the event should continue. We said that the fans would want it to go on and that by cancelling the event, we were allowing the killers to do more harm by ruining this happy experience for others. We argued that the city of Denver needed a shot in the arm now more than ever—something to rejuvenate its spirit. We even got the Mayor of Denver to write Lucasfilm a letter pleading to let the event continue and how healthy it would be for the city of Denver. After a solid two days of going back and forth of discussing the positives and negatives of keeping the event going, Lucasfilm finally agreed with us to let it continue and we moved forward. The rest is history. Anthony and I worked hard to convince Lucasfilm not to cancel Celebration I. At the event, we did have a moment of silence for the victims of Columbine at the opening and we raised money for the victims’ families as well.
Jim Ward still tells me he is glad we talked them in to letting the event happen as it would’ve been the wrong thing to cancel it two weeks out because of Columbine. In retrospect, it was definitely the right thing to do.
Do you feel that there was an element of “damage control” to their involvement?
There is no truth to that whatsoever. They had some of their crew here helping us all along, as volunteers, working in the store, or helping us set up the LucasArts area, but that was planned months in advance for them to come out and help wherever we felt they were needed. Many of them came because they wanted to see the event. But Lucasfilm certainly did not swoop in here at the last moment because there was nothing they needed to swoop in to save. The event was difficult because of the weather. There was nothing that could be done about that. We handled all the talent and their arrangements to get in town. We put them all up and provided transportation back and forth. I worked closely with Lynne Hale at Lucasfilm with coordinating these folks. She supplied me with their contact info and I did the rest. The folks at Lucasfilm worked hand in hand with us but did not take control of the event at any time. In fact, as related above, they were very happy with the way the event turned out despite the weather, and later. they called and sent us accolades.
How did Fantastic Media lose its relationship with Lucasfilm?
To be honest, we purchased too much Episode I product and it didn’t sell. On top of that, excess merchandise was everywhere, from mom and pop shops to Wal-Mart. Because of the mounting debt as a result of this, we had to find someone who was willing to take this on. Hasbro, through Wizards of the Coast, expressed interest and Lucasfilm worked with me to make a deal happen. Wizards had had their eye on the fan club before this and wanted the license. I stayed on for a year after the sale as a consultant with Wizards. Unfortunately, after promising all kinds of advancements for the fan club, Wizards gave up the license only a year or two after they had received it.
To be honest, I don’t think the fan club has been as good as when it was in our care. We truly cared about the club. It was a passion for me and my crew, and for Insider editor Jon Snyder. I hope that fans today can look back and appreciate the care we put into the magazine, our products, and the life we breathed into the club when it was essentially dead back in 1987 when I took it over from Lucasfilm. We were the first non-Lucasfilm people that they let run the club. They were very particular about that and I respected them for it. I never took the club for granted. I was very serious about trying to do everything with dignity, quality, and care. Lucasfilm, and what the company and its properties stood for, were very important to me and I never took their relationship with their fans lightly.
I will always be thankful to George Lucas and Howard Roffman for taking a chance on me and giving me the opportunity to start the club back up again, and for giving us the wonderful experiences and opportunities the club provided for 13 years. I believe we ran the club during some of the most exciting years of Star Wars history. The period between the special editions and the first prequel were really amazing!
Tell me about the decision to take Lucasfilm magazine and change the name to Star Wars Insider?
When the announcement had come that George Lucas was going to make the special editions of the original trilogy and it was looking like he was finally getting serious about the prequels, we decided that the focus of the club should shift to more Star Wars coverage. Up until then, we were trying to survive on Indiana Jones, Willow, Tucker and other Lucasfilm projects. It was not easy. I remember during those years people would say to me, “Why are you doing Lucasfilm’s club? Star Wars is in the past and no one knows if George is ever going to get back to it? Their new projects are not fan club material.” I would tell them that I had faith that George would get back to it eventually. I would compare it to working in a gold mine. You might work in the mine day after day finding nothing but rocks but one day, you might strike a vein of gold and then you would be glad you had spent all that time working on it. I knew George would eventually get back to Star Wars and I was willing to wait for that time when we would see a renaissance of the club. So, as a result of Lucasfilm’s leanings towards more Star Wars projects, we decided it was time to change the format back to mostly Star Wars and change the name. We went back and forth with Lucasfilm on what the magazine should be called and finally decided upon Star Wars Insider since that described what the magazine really was—your inside source on everything Star Wars! We eventually brought the fan club back to its original days of glory, resulting in the highest number of members it had to date. I think our total membership back in 1998/99 was over 180,000.
How did you guys deal with the fact that the web was essentially outdating your magazine?
We wanted to do more online but it was really looked at as competing with the relatively new starwars.com. So we had to back off of that. We did operate and manage the official online store when it launched, which was located on starwars.com. We ultimately realized that what our magazine offered was more in-depth coverage and more photos than what was offered online. Today I would do it all differently but back then we had to live within the structure we were given. It was frustrating to be scooped constantly. We were always asking Lucasfilm for exclusives for the magazine to help keep it current. Sometimes they helped us with this and sometimes they didn’t. It was a constant struggle for us and I was always calling them asking for scoops and exclusives for the magazine including interviews with George Lucas. We were fortunate to have our updates with Rick McCallum. I started that way back when. I interviewed Rick for a book I did for Lucasfilm on the making of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. I realized then that Rick was George’s right hand man so I built a relationship with him early on—long before the Star Wars prequels were in production. As soon as I had heard internally that Rick would be working on the prequels, I jumped on it and got approval to have Rick talk with me every issue about the progress of the films. Rick is a great guy. He’s one of my best memories of working with Lucasfilm. He doesn’t mince words and he is brutally honest. He is fun to talk with. I started this update column-type thing on our Star Trek magazine years before with Producer Rick Berman and creator Gene Roddenberry. I tried to get George to do some of the updates but he was not available.
What do you think of the whole “Hyperspace” paid access section on Starwars.com?
I think it makes sense to have a major online presence for the fan club today but I’m not sure I would handle it the way they have. I have some great ideas on how to run the club today that I think would really improve it. Unfortunately, I’m not in a position anymore of making that happen. I do wish them well, though. Lucasfilm holds a special place for me. I have and always will be a fan of their projects, the company, and, of course, the fan club.
Do you personally think that Lucasfilm takes advantage of the sheep-like quality of fans?
No more than any other company. I do think they truly care about the fans and they have given the fans some real quality over the years. Star Wars is a business as well as a creative idea and they are only trying to give folks what they want. It is up to the fans to turn up their noses to things they don’t like.
Do you think Star Wars is over-marketed?
The prequels, for sure. You can’t go anywhere without seeing Star Wars. That’s good in some ways but, in my opinion, that tends to burn people out fast. It is exciting for a short amount of time but then you just get sick of seeing and hearing about it. The world seems to be hungry for Star Wars so the real challenge is how to make the most of that while not oversaturating the market. If anybody knows how to balance that it would be Lucasfilm. In some ways, especially with Episode III, they didn’t even have to do the marketing. The media was doing it for them. Everyone was talking about Revenge of the Sith…including me!
Do you think that the quality of publishing and merchandise has gotten better or worse in the last 10 years or so?
I think it has remained the same. I have always thought that Lucasfilm did a good job with maintaining the quality of their publishing and merchandising programs. I know for a fact, as an ex-licensee of theirs, how careful they were about quality and staying within the approved guidelines of the known Star Wars universe. They made our lives difficult sometimes with their demands of quality and detail and I respected that. I liked it. That is something I don’t believe has changed.
Why did you create Thankyougeorge.com and how did that come together?
That was something I did through Decipher. It was a way for fans, like myself, to thank George for all he has given us. That’s really all it was ever meant to be. So, Decipher put their technical people together to make it happen. I’m glad we did it as it was another chance for me to step back into the Star Wars universe, which I love, and share my passion with other fans again. The site has been a success so far. It has provided a forum for fans to express their gratitude for George with other fans and, hopefully, George himself. Will we reach our goal? Probably not, as we still have a long way to go and the fervor around Episode III has died down a bit but whether we do or not is not important. What is important is that we made a go of it and the fans who wanted to thank George have done so and placed their thoughts, expressions and gratitude in front of other fans who might find it inspirational. For me, that’s what I hoped it would do.
Tell me about the differences between working in the Lord of the Rings arena?
They really aren’t that much different except Lord of the Rings has a much larger female audience than Star Wars. Star Wars has a long history in the film business whereas LOTR was just beginning when I stepped onboard. I found everyone who worked on the LOTR films to be humble and really approachable people. Peter Jackson may be my favorite filmmaker ever. He is a genuinely nice guy on top of being a creative genius. The fans in each are equally as passionate and are also avid collectors. Both care about their fans and would make efforts to reach out to them. Peter Jackson was much more accessible than George Lucas, though. I spoke to Peter for every issue of the LOTR fan club magazine to do our updates even in the heat of production.
What would you say is your greatest accomplishment in this business?
My greatest accomplishment was being given the opportunity to run the fan clubs for three of the biggest entertainment properties of all time for over 25 years. I have published hundreds of magazines which, hopefully, have entertained fans for years and have provided an outlet for fans to meet one another and to add to their passion and collections. I am also proud of the first Star Wars Celebration. We had a lot of obstacles in front of us (many that fans don’t know about) and we somehow pulled it off, rain and all. Along the way there have been a lot of perks like my a cameo role in Episode I and getting to be friends with the folks who made the films and TV series. I hope that years from now the work we did will still be remembered in some small way as contributing to the popularity and success of these entertainment legends.
Looking back, do you have any regrets?
Yes—buying too many Jar Jar Binks action figures! That killed us!
What’s next for you and/or what are you currently doing?
I am in the process of working on a new enterprise I can’t talk about quite yet. I am also looking at several opportunities presented to me and determining where I want to go next. The world is a big place and there’s lots I have yet to experience. So I am excited about the possibilities ahead. I’m sure you’ll be hearing about one of the projects I am working on soon.
Give me an example of something Lucasfilm has done extremely well and something that Lucasfilm has failed miserably at.
Well: Licensing Fantastic Media to run the fan club in 1987!
Failed: Not giving the fan club back to Fantastic Media after Wizards let it go!
(Original Posting: July 18, 2006)